Folie à Deux – The Struggles and Potential of Gotham Without Batman

The world Todd Phillips introduced in Joker (2019) was unlike any we had seen before. It wasn’t the DC Universe we knew a place where Gotham’s skyscrapers loom over its vigilantes and villains. Instead, it was a gritty, raw, and more grounded version of this city. Joaquin Phoenix’s portrayal of Arthur Fleck, a man descending into madness, captivated audiences and garnered critical acclaim. But as we approach the release of Joker: Folie à Deux, a significant question looms: how long can this universe ignore Batman?

Arthur Fleck’s journey from a failed comedian to the terrifying Joker unfolded in 1981, years before Bruce Wayne would become the Dark Knight. This time gap made Batman’s absence in the first film not only understandable but intentional. However, Joker: Folie à Deux introduces a host of Batman-related characters, making it increasingly difficult to ignore the Caped Crusader’s looming presence.

Gotham’s Transformation Without Batman

The absence of Batman in the first Joker was clever. Arthur’s anger was directed at Thomas Wayne, not his son Bruce, who was just a child. The age difference between them cemented the idea that Arthur Fleck’s Joker wouldn’t necessarily be Batman’s arch-nemesis in the future. Instead, the film was focused on Arthur’s internal battle and how society’s cruelty shaped him.

However, as we move into Joker: Folie à Deux, the dynamics begin to shift. Arthur has embraced his identity as the Joker, and his partnership with Lady Gaga’s Harley Quinn promises to push Gotham into even darker territory. But as more familiar faces from Batman’s rogues’ gallery are introduced, the absence of the hero himself becomes harder to overlook.

Enter Harvey Dent, one of the most iconic characters in the Batman universe. As Gotham’s district attorney who eventually becomes the villain Two-Face, Harvey Dent’s connections to Bruce Wayne and Batman are undeniable. He is a close friend to both Bruce Wayne and Commissioner Jim Gordon, and his inclusion in Jocker Questions now, How can Harvey Dent exist without Batman? The more characters like Dent are introduced, the more glaring Batman’s absence becomes.

The Conundrum of Introducing Batman

While it’s clear that Joker: Folie à Deux cannot avoid Batman forever, introducing him is no simple task. The current state of DC movies only complicates matters further. Robert Pattinson is set to continue his portrayal of Batman in The Batman: Part II, and a new actor will debut the role in James Gunn’s The Brave and the Bold as part of the DC Universe’s rebranding. Adding yet another Batman into the mix, specifically for the Joker universe, risks oversaturating the character and confusing audiences.

Moreover, Bruce Wayne in Joker (2019) was only a child. For Batman to appear in Joker: Folie à Deux, a significant time jump or an epilogue would be required, which would feel out of place in the film’s grounded narrative. If Arthur Fleck is the Joker now, how could he plausibly face off against a much younger Bruce Wayne in the future? The timeline simply doesn’t align for Batman to appear in any meaningful way at least, not without breaking the realistic tone set by the first film.

A Story Without Batman, But Still Influenced by Him

So, how can Joker: Folie à Deux avoid the “Batman problem” and still tell a compelling story? One solution lies in the unique way Arthur Fleck perceives the world. In the first film, much of Arthur’s reality was fabricated, especially his relationship with Sophie, played by Zazie Beetz. He was an unreliable narrator, and this aspect of his character can be further explored in Joker: Folie à Deux.

Arthur’s obsession with Bruce Wayne could escalate in the sequel, as his mind becomes increasingly fragmented. Rather than directly introducing Batman, the film could lean into Arthur’s delusions. Imagine a scenario where Arthur envisions a future Batman a symbol of hope or authority that he either admires or despises. This approach would allow the film to include elements of Batman without disrupting the timeline or continuity.

The Potential of Hallucinations and Musical Delusions

The musical elements hinted at in Joker: Folie à Deux provide another avenue for incorporating Batman without physically introducing him. Arthur’s hallucinations could become more vivid, and in his mind, he could begin to see Bruce Wayne as his future adversary. The film’s musical numbers might even feature dream-like sequences where Arthur and a not-yet-real Batman face off.

These musical sections could represent Arthur’s internal battles, where his growing madness and obsession with Bruce Wayne take centre stage. By presenting Batman as part of Arthur’s fractured psyche, the film could explore their iconic rivalry in a more psychological and symbolic way. Arthur may never actually face Bruce Wayne, but in his mind, he’s already fighting his future foe.

Todd Phillips’ Vision for Joker’s Relationship with Batman

Director Todd Phillips has hinted at how Arthur Fleck would perceive a figure like Batman. In a recent interview, Phillips explained that Arthur would likely be in awe of the Dark Knight, viewing him as the epitome of masculinity and authority qualities that Arthur could never possess. This dynamic could be explored further in Joker: Folie à Deux, with Arthur’s admiration for Batman manifesting in twisted and unsettling ways.

Rather than portraying Batman as an actual character, Phillips could delve deeper into Arthur’s psyche, showcasing how Batman represents everything Arthur both craves and despises. The tension between Arthur’s admiration and hatred for the Caped Crusader could add a layer of complexity to their relationship, even if Batman never physically appears in the film.

The Future of the Joker Franchise Without Batman

While fans might be disappointed that Joker: Folie à Deux won’t feature a full-fledged Batman, there is still much to look forward to. The sequel will dive deeper into Arthur’s mind, explore his relationship with Harley Quinn, and introduce new characters like Harvey Dent. These elements alone are enough to build a compelling story without the need for Batman’s direct involvement.

Todd Phillips has confirmed that Joker: Folie à Deux will be the final film in this particular Joker series. However, Phillips has also expressed interest in exploring an older Bruce Wayne at some point in the future. This leaves the door open for another filmmaker to take on the challenge of bringing Batman into this universe, but for now, the Joker’s story continues without him.

The Unavoidable Presence of Batman

In the end, while Joker: Folie à Deux may not physically introduce Batman, his shadow looms large over Gotham. As more characters from Batman’s world are introduced, it becomes increasingly difficult to ignore the hero’s eventual rise. However, through Arthur Fleck’s delusions, hallucinations, and twisted perception of the world, the film can still explore the dynamic between Joker and Batman in creative and unconventional ways.

For now, Gotham remains without its Dark Knight, but the seeds of their future conflict are already being sown.